Only revolution can stop corruption in Nigeria - Sen Tsauri

Senator Umar Ibrahim Tsauri represented Katsina Central in the Senate from 2003-2007. He speaks on the purported second term ambition of President Goodluck Jonathan and the ongoing national conference, among other things. Excerpts:

WT: Most people expected you to represent your people at the National Conference, why are you not there?
Senator Umar Tsauri: I cannot say because it was not a contest. If you are nominated you join, and if you are not, you keep quiet.
WT: Some Nigerians believe the issues outlined for the conference do not really cover the problems the country is facing. What do you say to this?
Senator Tsauri: I still have some reservations. I am yet to understand the way it is going now. Earlier, I asked why we needed the national conference, because I have experienced something that was not palatable about conference. I was in Niger Republic in the 80s when they had their national

conference and based on that, I said I might not be part of that conference. I thought it was going to be Sovereign National Conference and we know that if it is SNC, then the government will have to step down.
WT: Do you agree that the unity of Nigeria should be paramount at the conference, based on the challenges on ground?
Senator Tsauri: They are only joking. Nobody will like to break Nigeria. Anybody who says we should break up is not serious. That is why I like (former President Olusegun) Obasanjo, one thing he has refused to compromise is the unity of this country and he was willing to die for it.
WT: With the crises across the country, do you see Nigeria remaining as one after 2015?
Senator Tsauri: Nothing will break this country. Even if the president said they should talk about it, nobody will recommend breaking the country.
WT: The opposition and even some PDP members have berated his leadership style especially the way insurgency has been handled, how will you assess him?
Senator Tsauri: The problem is that all accusing fingers are being pointed at the president, but the president is human like you and me. When we say government, we can only talk of the head. We need to agree that government is not about one person, it is a collective responsibility, and we must share responsibility for our government. What is happening here is that anytime the government does something good, they praise everybody, but if it is bad, the blame goes to Mr. President, forgetting that he cannot do everything himself. He has   appointed people working for him and the president cannot be everywhere at the same time, people working for him must take responsibility.
WT: President Jonathan’s administration is being accused of encouraging corruption; do you think he is doing enough in terms of fighting it?
Senator Tsauri: Corruption has eaten deep into our fabric, everybody does it, you give bribe and I give bribe, you take it and I take it, is that not corruption? How do you eradicate something that everybody does? It is not possible. The only thing that can eradicate corruption in this country is revolution.
WT: Since the emergence of Alhaji Adamu Muazu as the PDP National Chairman, there have been great expectations, yet some are pessimistic, do you think he can succeed where others failed?
Senator Tsauri: I was there when (Chief Barnabas) Gemade came on board; we knew what happened at the Eagle Square. We knew who won the election and who was later announced. During the NPN (National Party of Nigeria in the Second Republic), I was in the House of Representatives and then the party was supreme. It is what the chairman said that went. When the chairman calls for a meeting, the president addresses him as sir. The chairman could tell the president to come to his house and he will come. In 1999, the party was still supreme when Chief Solomon Lar was on board, but the moment the party agreed that the president, governors are the leaders of the party and you know you cannot have two captains on a boat; then we started having problems.
The President now decides who becomes chairman of the party. When Gemade parted ways with Obasanjo, he was removed, when Chief Audu Ogbe became chairman and parted ways with Obasanjo, he was removed and the trend continued till date. Whenever the President decides to remove the chairman, he removes him. So, you don’t expect Mu’azu to do anything different, because he is a child of the system. When (ex-PDP national chairman, Alhaji Bamanga) Tukur came on board, everybody thought as an elder statesman, a former governor and other things, he had all it takes to get the party back to its rightful position, but unfortunately age was not on his side. If Mu’azu will be allowed by the executive to work, I am sure he will restore the glory of the party.
WT: But what is your take on the massive defections from one party to the other?
Senator Tsauri: Whoever you see defecting from the PDP to another party is one of two things. Either he was not a real member of the PDP or he is an ingrate. If you are not a member of a family and you join and later left them, what difference does that make? People that the PDP has given them trousers, shirts, houses and everything are now simply dumping the party because of greed. So, we don’t care about integrity and ideology. But don’t worry; those same people will come back to the party again. I also know that the PDP will win its elections.
WT: What are the chances of the PDP in the general elections now that some, especially the governors, have defected to the opposition and should the president contest in 2015?
Senator Tsauri: That I cannot say, I will not say the president should not contest, because that will be infringing on his fundamental human rights. Some have said he signed an agreement, but we haven’t seen the document or prove. If there is something like that, then his advisers should tell him to honor the agreement for posterity sake. I know the President is a gentleman, look at the way people talk about the President, some even insult him yet you will never hear him respond. It shows he is a true leader. Look at the way the world respects General Abdulsalami Abubakar, because he respected the wishes of the people and honored his words.
WT: How do you see the agitation for a return of the presidency to the North?
Senator Tsauri: I am from the North and of course, I will love the president to be from the North. I will love the president to be from Katsina, because the previous president was from there and he didn’t finish his tenure because of death. So, if it is to be done that way, I will fight for it to go to Katsina State again, but the PDP constitution says if a president dies, another person from the zone can be nominated. So, if the president decides not to contest and the opportunity is given to the North, I will gladly advocate for Katsina State.
WT: How do you think the ongoing insurgency in parts of the North can be tackled and prevented from spilling to other parts of the country?
Senator Tsauri: This has gone beyond human comprehension. The time has come for serious prayers, because those being massacred are innocent people. Only God can stop this, because we are dealing with people who are ready to die and so killing them will not solve the problem.
WT: Some have accused the government of not doing enough in terms of fighting insurgency, what is your take on this?
Senator Tsauri: The government is incapacitated because of militancy in the Niger Delta, kidnappings in the South East and Boko Haram in the North. You also have the Fulani herdsmen and farmers crisis in the Middle Belt. So the government is a bit overwhelmed. Nigerian must join hands with government to end these crises.
WT: Ahead of the 2015 elections, the opposition seems to be gaining ground in some northern states, including your state, Katsina, how do you see this?
Senator Tsauri: In 2011, the presidential candidate of CPC (defunct Congress for Progressive Change) was from our state. The first election to the National Assembly, we were in a political landscape with serious turbulence, we thought the aircraft was going down. We lost 12 members out of 15 House of Representative seats. We lost all the three Senate seats and when we lost the seats, we couldn’t do anything. In fact, our governor said we should not go to court. But because we had a pilot who was confident, committed and was in control, before the elections of the governor, he had taken charge of the situation. When the gubernatorial elections came, we took over 30 local government areas. With this kind of political turbulence and the pilot we had, no turbulence will shake us again.
WT: There were reports that Governor Ibrahim Shema is grooming you to take over from him. How true is this and are you going to contest the governorship of the state?
Senator Tsauri: The relationship between me and the governor is a cordial one. He involves us in so many things in the state. So people could start insinuating. I have no intention of contesting the governorship, but I am still in active politics.